Are you thinking about using rongoā?

My Aunty recently passed away. She didn’t want anything, any treatment at all. And so, there’s that opportunity as well. And that’s another rongoā, I suppose, is like ‘my time’s up. It’s time for me to go; it will happen how it happens’.

I would say, ‘Oh if you’re wanting to do rongoā rākau, these are your options.’ So, I’d highlight to them what they might be able to use. And then, because I’m not going to have the time to go and make that. And then I would say, ‘Oh I know somebody if you’re interested,’ you know, ‘this is somebody that you could get that from.’ So, I’ve already kind of said what I think would be good, and especially if I start them on something else and I’ve kind of had anecdotal evidence that that’s okay, then I know that these are the ones that I’m going to be okay with them having with a certain medicine. So, I would say, ‘Oh and you can go to this person and they’ll be able to do that…Keeps me safe from that perspective, and I’m just saying ‘these are your options’. I’m not saying, ‘Oh you should go and have that,’ you know so I’m saying, ‘these are options.’ So, I think that keeps it safe. I haven’t actually had any problems with it.

That’s right, so, but if I was to say, ‘you need to take that,’ you know that could be a problem. ‘You’re going to take that, and this is what you’re going to take’, that could be a problem. So, but I leave that to those who do that every day. And that’s the beauty of rongoā, it’s not about who does it, who provides it for you… it’s about gaining the access to those who are willing to give the healing, or those who are willing to help them, because the true healing is not from the tohunga. It’s not even from, you know, it is from Io [God], but it’s actually within yourself. And so, it’s being able to find that pathway to be able to heal within yourself… like if someone says, ‘oh I go to the chiropractor, osteopath,’ whatever they [want], I’m like ‘whatever’s going to get you better. My job is to get you never to come back to my room because you’re so good,’ you know. ‘My job is I don’t want to see you again,’ you know.

I think there are some doubts around some of the chemotherapy and interactions with rongoā. I don’t have enough knowledge around that, but I think what people forget is that rongoā Māori is based on a spiritual side first and foremost. You can’t go to the ngāhere, the bush and get the children of Tāne without doing a karakia first, and without tikanga all the way through and taking it back.

So, I think it can be complementary, but I also think there are fears that it is different. And there are fears for those that utilise it and who are maybe not doing it in the right ways. So, there’s a little bit of that in the background. But if we were to take that away, then absolutely it’s the wairua of the plants, of Tāne, that is the healer. So, yes that has medicinal properties, but first and foremost it is the wairua. So it is around understanding that- is you know, like before we focus too much into the interactions of everything else, you know, that someone thought about that kuia, went out to the bush, dedicate that time, did exactly the tikanga and thought about that person in their mind to bring that back…that’s where all the healing is from. It’s not around getting a panipani of kawakawa and giving that to them, it’s the whole journey that is the healing, right.

And so, it can align with Western medicine, but there are fears around that of course. The spiritual side Te Oomai-reia. So, I generally talk about rongoā rākau in Te Oomai Reia. Rākau being Tāne’s stuff where we’ve got kawakawa’s all those things, and then we’ve got the Te Oomai Reia which is the spiritual realms, which go through different phases…all the different ways. And so through that, you know, with kōmiri, tamiri, mirimiri, there are different ways you can interlink with those wairua and, shift the entities, or shift the pain, or change the pain, dampen it down, or, you know. Because we do believe that some of this, the pain that we have, the diseases we attribute, the illnesses, are from the wairua eh, and the psychological parts that contribute to that.

So, if we can work with that, we can help in some ways, and to the point that it may not be, you know, at end-of-life. So, part of that is believing though. And I always say when I’ve done rongoā, in the space where it’s just doing rongoā, and, that it’s no use someone walking to my door if they don’t believe in it. Because the belief is part of that healing. You know, being able to believe that lifts their wairua to different a part so that you can work with that wairua; doesn’t mean that you can’t help them, but there’s only going to be so much you can do. So that knowing that, you know, that they believe in it in some way, or that it’s aligned with some of their thoughts, doesn’t have to be, because over time that can change, absolutely. But at some point, that’s really important.

Probably at this stage if I look at [my] whānau or both whānau [rongoā is] probably not important. We know it’s there but we’re not really putting it into practice apart from when Ripeka got sick. That’s the only time where she tried a bit, when it was down our street. We just picked it on our own terms, that’s the only contact I’ve had with it. But I knew a farmer once who used it big time. [Ripeka] was brought up with it but she come down to Wellington [and] she sort of lost that side of it or she didn’t do it. Anyway, she was willing to try, back to the traditional [healing] when māuiui. I took her back to a couple of healers once one long weekend. You couldn’t go away much, you could for one weekend with the healers up in [name], we went one weekend so that was probably the only outside help that we had.

“When she had her chemo, I stopped doing the kawakawa, yeah rongoā [rākau].”

Because it’s whether, whether they’ve had that path. Not everybody’s had that path… Because they’ve never had, had it. They’ve never had the introduction to it. They’ve never used it. So, they’re used to the pharmacy, the doctor, the chemicals, right? Whereas you or I, or other people who know about these things would first of all think to that [rongoā] and then if it really is not responding and we can’t find something… to make it respond then you would go to the scientific [Western bio-medical] way…

Oh, I’d say depends what part of the whānau [you’re from], but our whānau believes in rongoā. So, we have all these kids that know how that works. That’s my immediate family. We’re so diverse now. Some people just say, ‘Oh it’s rubbish.’ you know. My own family, okay. Ah but other parts of the family… they wouldn’t [use it].

From a Māori family point of view, where they come from, it I think it’s absolutely important that they utilise whatever rongoā that makes them comfortable to bring them to a space where they need to be.

Word of mouth again, eh?... they are [using it], you know, because cousin said, ‘Oh, you should try this [rongoā].’ You know?